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Cajun Culture Forum
La grègue ? La grecque ?


Christian13th January 2006 - 8:39 PM
Je suis assez intrigué par le mot « grègue » qu’on a trouvé l’autre jour dans le conte "L’Eau haute de vingt-sept". Je ne l’avais jamais entendu et je ne l’ai trouvé dans aucun dictionnaire.
Une petite recherche sur internet m’a donné, grâce à Google, "une grecque : cafetière en métal émaillé". Le mot pourrait aussi venir du breton "greg" qui signifie "cafetière".
Regardez par exemple le texte ci-dessous (troisième paragraphe) :

http://www.humanite.presse.fr/journal/1993-07-05/1993-07-05-680091

Qu’est-ce que vous en pensez ? Est-ce que quelqu’un connaît l’histoire de ce mot ?

Cela ne me semblerait pas impossible que le mot breton soit parvenu en Acadie, puis en Louisiane, puisque les pêcheurs bretons allaient depuis très longtemps pêcher la morue au large de Terre-Neuve et avaient le droit de séjourner sur les côtes d’Acadie.

Christian




 
 


Bryan Lafleur2nd December 2005 - 1:34 PM
Je te parie que Roy peut trouver ça. "Gregue" est le mot qu'est user auras de Mamou pour un "coffee pot", est c'est ecrit comme ça dedans la livre a "Father Daigle".
 
 


Bryan Lafleur2nd December 2005 - 1:39 PM
Mais, je l'ai trouvé moi meme, va a le link en suivant.

http://www.tlfq.ulaval.ca/bdlp/resultats.asp?base=bdlp_louisiane
 
 


Christian2nd December 2005 - 4:24 PM
Très bien ce site, merci beaucoup Bryan, je le mets dans mes favoris.
En plus il y a même une photo. C'est le genre de cafetière que mes parents avaient.

Mais je me demande quand même bien d'où vient ce mot. Je me demande si c'est le mot breton pour cafetière (comme je l'ai lu sur un site -parce que les Bretons emploient ce mot et il appartient aussi à la langue bretonne) ou si c'est une déformation de "grecque" (une cafetière grecque), comme je l'ai vu écrit dans un livre.

Christian
 
 
pete2nd December 2005 - 5:21 PM
Mais, d'apres mon, les formes 'gregue' et 'grecque' devien les deux
des Grecs, pace-que ce mone ca etai bien fameux pour leur cafe.
Nusaute icite dans la Louisiane an dzi 'gregue', comme tsi connais.
Ain aute mot, les Bretons a emprinte ce terme, mais ch' peu pas t' dzere
si les Cadjein l'a yu avec les Breton, cpendant.
 
 
Roy2nd December 2005 - 7:09 PM
Je crois que l'espellation "grègue" est une déformation du mot "grèque" parce qu'en cadien, la lettre "g" est parfois prononcé comme "k." Par example le mot "grègue" est prononcé "grèk" et le nom de famille "Bourg" est prononcé "bourk" et le mot "fatigué" est prononcé "fatiké." Y a des autres mots, mais je les rappelle pas asteur. Je crois que c'est le même mot, mais en Louisiane c'est espellé "grègue" peut-être parce qu'y a du monde qui le prononce comme ça avec le son "g" et y a du monde qui le prononce avec le son "k" et si tu connaît que "g" est parfois prononcé "k" ça fait pas rien si tu vois "grègue" et c'est prononcé "grèk."

---Roy---
 
 
Christian3rd December 2005 - 3:44 AM
Bon, merci. Effectivement, ça a l'air logique tout ça. Prononciation de "grecque" et référence aux Grecs buveurs de café. La cafetière est peut-être même une invention des Grecs.

Au fait, est-ce qu'on dit parfois aussi "cafetière" en Louisiane ?

Christian
 
 
pete3rd December 2005 - 10:16 AM
Non, j'ai jamén atendzu d'aine cafetiere icite dans ces entourages, mén pétete les autes posteurs va m' contrailler sans me mentionnén, si ça connén, ch' sai pas.

 
 
Daniel3rd December 2005 - 10:54 PM
Roy, my family does not pronounce things the same way as yours apparently. We say gregue with a hard G, the name Bourg is pronounced with a "k" because it derives from the original Acadian spelling of "Bourque", and fatigué is never pronounced with a "k". The more I read postings here about our language, the more I realize that our speech is very different.
 
 
Roy4th December 2005 - 9:32 AM
Well, I've noticed that there's a difference between the vocabulary and pronunciation of southwest Louisiana and southeast Louisiana. Some things exist here that the southwest has never heard of "eux-autres-mêmes" "nous-autres-mêmes" "eusse" pronuciation of "droite" as "dratte" and NOT "drètte," etc.

---Roy---
 
 
pete4th December 2005 - 11:30 AM
Well, I've noticed that there's a difference between the vocabulary and pronunciation of southwest Louisiana and southeast Louisiana. Some things exist here that the southwest has never heard of "eux-autres-mêmes" "nous-autres-mêmes" "eusse" pronuciation of "droite" as "dratte" and NOT "drètte," etc.

"eux-autres-mêmes" "nous-autres-mêmes" are common usage in Evangeline
Parish. "eusse" is not common here. "drètte," no it's 'droëte' ,pronounced 'drwèt', not 'drètte'. Tell you a childhood memory: My grandmother, once chided me for saying
"parterre" when I referred to dropping something on the floor. No, she said, it's "sus l' plancher', pas sus la terre". Cajuns like all French people take there language very seriously at times.
Incidentally, do you say 'sus' or 'sur'. I was quite offended once to here a Codofilian say that Cajuns who left the -r out of 'sur' were not enunciating properly. As You
probably know, however, the omission of -r in 'su' stands for 'sus', the same prefix as in 'suspendzu'. I'll keep writing it as 'sus' just to get these pretentious control-freaks mad at me. Let me quickly add that if you were brought up saying 'sur', the last comment had nothing to do with you. And let me repeat, I AM NOT INFLEXIBLE.
Sorry for shouting, but people seem to think here that if they agree with me, it's like spitting on the flag of France. Hello, this is Louisiana, folks, remember?
 
 
Bryan Lafleur4th December 2005 - 1:50 PM
That's kind of funny, I was just telling Roy the other day how it never ceases to amaze me how similar our dialects are. Considering that south Louisianians traditionally (until recently) stayed in their communities, were influenced by other ethnic groups in different amounts, and that cajun french has always been learned orally. As many know, Evangeline parish has very little Acadian influence, but other than some minor differences, our culture, accent, and language (especially grammar)is, to me, amazingly similar.
 
 
pete4th December 2005 - 2:44 PM
Yeah, it's the divide-and-conquer strategy that the Codofilians have employed since the beginning. Your comment brings something else to mind: Ever notice that even though there are minor differences here and there amongst Cajuns regarding their speech, that the accent is always the same in all of Acadiana. If you visit France, however, or Canada (to a lesser degree), diversity is the norm. I swear that I cannot distinguish between the accent of someone from Golden Meadow or Evangeline Parish until he or she uses a term peculier to one or the other respective areas in question.
 
 
pete4th December 2005 - 3:23 PM
Evangeline has probably more Acadian influences than one would suppose,
but be that as it may, let me tell you that my paternal grandfather, whose ancestry I have traced to Nova Scotia, grew up in the countryside of Lafayette, while my mother was raised between Ville Platte and Chataignier. That's how dialects get mixed.
 
 
Bryan Lafleur4th December 2005 - 5:29 PM
There are too many similarities for me not to think you are right. They had to have influenced each other, but as you probably know, most of the names most common to Evangeline parish are not Acadian (Fontenot, Guillory, Lafleur, Deshotels, Veillon), but we do have plenty of Heberts, Bertrands, and Gautreauxs. Very few people in Evangeline parish know this, and I think many would get a little defensive if someone were to tell them they are not actually Acadian. But someone asked me a while back if I consider myself Cajun or not, and I replied I consider myself Cajun by what the word has come to mean to me.
 
 
Daniel5th December 2005 - 10:58 PM
You know Pete, you're starting to p*i*s*s me off. WHAT IS YOUR BEEF WITH CODOFIL? I was a member once and am considering joining again.

If it weren't for CODOFIL French/Cajun would have DISAPPEARED in this state by now. CODOFIL is mostly responsible, if not SOLELY responsible for the renaissance of French and Cajun culture in this state. Before CODOFIL the music was going full bent toward country and western swing. No one wanted to speak French in public and being Cajun was something to almost be ashamed of. Then came CODOFIL with it's affirmation of our language and culture, which ignited the pride that we now so happily enjoy and which also opened us up to the whole world at large, and introduced the whole world to us as well. More specifically CODOFIL introduced us to the French speaking world, thus enabling us to give sustenance to a language that was fast disappearing and which may yet disappear.

We must stay connected to the francophone world at large if we are to maintain French in this state. What would you have CODOFIL do? Surely you can't mean for CODOFIL to teach French using that ridiculous code of yours? We would become the laughing stock of all French speaking countries in the world. I tell you, this whole debate is tiresome! It wants to make me forget the whole Frech struggle all together. It's hard enough swimming upstream against the ENGLISH speaking majority (and fast approaching SPANISH majority?), without having to struggle against entrenched stupidity amongst my own people. Open your mind man! Education is good not bad. Being a rebel for the sake of rebelling is a waste of time.



 
 
pete6th December 2005 - 1:04 AM
Daniel: "Les mots comme: tsi, tou, dzu, ecrebesse, melle, féilles, limeuro, -------- cela veut dire quoi, ça? Je n'ai jamais entendu un(e) Cadien(ne) parler comme cela, au moins, pas dans la région d'où viennent mes parents, c'est à dire la paroisse Vermillion."

pete: Alorse tsi compren tes "cousins" qui resse des mélle a côté d' toi plu aisé que cézla qu'est cent mélle a côté.

Daniel: "...je ne peux pas supporter la façon dont tu écris. C'est pour cette raison que je ne te réponds pas."

pete: Hmm, ch' pense tsi chante les cantséque de la bébe de l'Académie Française comme Osama trace les parole dzu Koran avec ses doigts. N'a pas aine qui frai ain bon tôrchon, d'aprés mon.

Daniel "Roy, my family does not pronounce things the same way as yours apparently. We say gregue with a hard G, the name Bourg is pronounced with a "k" because it derives from the original Acadian spelling of "Bourque", and fatigué is never pronounced with a "k". The more I read postings here about our language, the more I realize that our speech is very different."

pete: Si jamén tsi vien cez mon, j'va t' vider dzu café d' gregue,
tandzi qu'an parle pôr les Bourques qu'an a connu dans notte vie, jusqua nottes langues est fatsiqué. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

Daniel: "You know Pete, you're starting to p*i*s*s me off. WHAT IS YOUR BEEF WITH CODOFIL? I was a member once and am considering joining again.

pete: How do you do that? Chew on some hay and make gargling sounds
in the back of your throat in order to avoid pronouncing a Cajun thrilled -r. I imagine that would be the chief qualification to getting your foot in the door. After that, comes the hard part: Pete
Bergeron elocution lessons 101, starting with Po' Sea Bull "possible". There, you've also made the ASPCA take notice of us Cajuns. On the other hand, you could p*ss my namesake off but please the environmentalists by saying Po' Sea Bleue. Choisis,'tsit boy,choisis,
ente ta Mame Cadjéne et Memme de Codofel.



 
 
Christian6th December 2005 - 4:24 AM
C'est bizarre, t'as toujours pas compris qu'il était question d'ECRITURE ici, et de se comprendre mutuellement un peu plus loin que son village. Personne ne t'a jamais demandé de changer ta prononciation.
Quand j'entends un Québecois ou un Belge, je remarque sa prononciation. Quand je lis un québecois ou un Belge, je remarque qu'il écrit sans chercher à refléter sa prononciation. Mais tout en employant certains mots ou tournures qui lui sont propres. Il ne renie pas sa langue maternelle pour autant.
Et puis ne pas obliger autrui à déchiffrer péniblement ce qu'on lui écrit, c'est montrer du respect pour lui.
 
 
Daniel6th December 2005 - 10:22 AM
Merci pour ton message, Christian. Ça a été très bien dit. Tout ce débat-la, ça m'énerve.
 
 
Dowell6th December 2005 - 4:40 PM
I really hate to see this type disaccord. I very much enjoy the forum, and learn a lot from it. Although this is an extreme and hopefully isolated incident, it does illustrate somewhat what I've been saying for a long time - that Cajun French will probably never be taught in Louisiana. The differences in our language, although many are trivial in my opinion, are pronounced enough to fuel debates over it. Cajun French can never be taught without some type printed standardization, and a collective agreement to these standards would be essential to do that.

I agree in principle with what many people have said about Codofil providing teachers that teach so called Standard French to school children, instead of Cajun French, but the alternative is to teach them nothing at all about our native tongue, and culture. It would take local teachers who know, and have been brought up with, the local language to teach it, but too few people in South Louisiana are qualified, or are in a position, to do so. You are right, Daniel, Codofil has done much to awaken our pride in our moribund language and culture and help promote it world wide.

This language that is being discussed on this forum and other places, originates from the same country that Standard French did, and I think more can be accomplished by aligning, rather than alienating, ourselves with it.

In spite of my doomsday, and too long winded, rant here, I do solidly believe that we should do all that we can to save our language and culture, and if it's possible, and not too late, find a way to pass it on to our children. Once lost, it can never be recovered. (I hate to use old clichés, but they bear repeating.)

I'm sorry Pete, I respect your decision to write French the way you do, but I cannot indorse it. Re-educating everybody else to your writing standard just does not make sense.

Just my 2 cents worth,

Dowell
 
 
Jackie Bourque13th January 2006 - 8:39 PM
Salut les gars...

Je suis du Nouveau-Brunswick; je fais un peu de généalogie...un peu assez pour avoir découvert que nous les Acadiens somme d'origine Espagnol, et ça, de race juive. Voilâ pourquoi nos ancètres étions tous du sud de la France...aprês quoi nos ancêtres sont rentrés des l'Espagne pendant l'Inquisition de la méchante Reine Isabella et son époux le Roi Ferdinand. Il y a maintenant plusieurs sites web qui mentionne nos origines juives.

Il y a un petit article imprimé a cet égard sur le site web
www.jewlicious.com Vous avez qu'écrire mon nom et l'article vous
apparaîtra ou, sous titre de: Acadian or Jewish?

Si vous voulez de plus amples renseignements, vous pouvez m'ècrire.

Salutations sincère! Et

SHALOM!

Jackie
Fier d'être Acadienne!
 
 





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